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Post by FalconXL on Nov 4, 2017 22:40:19 GMT
In my opinion, if gambling machines are unsafe for children, then children shouldn't go near them. Just my opinion, so correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by poogan on Nov 4, 2017 22:44:00 GMT
Here's a easy way to fix this. If you don't like to gamble don't. It's your choice to go to the warp, enter the building and physically throw your diamonds into the machine. Having our machine only open for today has given people several wins and fun. It's your choice to gamble or not.
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Post by Bowser (UltraSharp) on Nov 4, 2017 22:44:27 GMT
In my opinion, if gambling machines are unsafe for children, then children shouldn't go near them. Just my opinion, so correct me if I'm wrong. The problem with this is that the casino owners are the ones telling people to play their gambling machines. Most people are not searching out the casinos, the casinos are searching out the players to steal from. Most people that play this server, and by default, these gambling machines, are kids.
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Post by itsAnniee on Nov 4, 2017 22:46:16 GMT
i do think that it is bad to expose younger kids to gambling. however, you don't have to do it and as long as it is checked out and cleared by a mod, i see no issue.
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Post by poogan on Nov 4, 2017 22:51:21 GMT
If there are signs in the front stating the loss that could happen and the staff team checks all machines there should not be a single problem at all.
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Post by Knootmare on Nov 4, 2017 22:51:48 GMT
As a former casino owner myself, I can assure casinos exploit a dark side of human psychology.
We've had clear exemplos in the past that the "if you don't like casinos, don't play in them" narrative doesn't hold true.
We shouldn't be exposing our player base to such toxic and addictive behaviour.
Despite whatever the owners might say, a casino isn't driven for entertainment, but profit. I, too, admit that I intended solely to profit when I had my casino last map.
With this in consideration, I, as a player, would like to use the reset as an opportunity to ban casinos altogether.
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Post by poogan on Nov 4, 2017 22:52:59 GMT
As a former casino owner myself, I can assure casinos exploit a dark side of human psychology. We've had clear exemplos in the past that the "if you don't like casinos, don't play in them" narrative doesn't hold true. We shouldn't be exposing our player base to such toxic and addictive behaviour. Despite whatever the owners might say, a casino isn't driven for entertainment, but profit. I, too, admit that I intended solely to profit when I had my casino last map. With this in consideration, I, as a player, would like to use the reset as an opportunity to ban casinos altogether. Toxicity is being blamed on casinos when the heart of the toxicity is coming from the staff
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PhoneBooth
Steve
I quietly play this video game.
Posts: 4
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Post by PhoneBooth on Nov 4, 2017 22:55:12 GMT
I admit, right now the issue is polarized by the timing and interest in the machines right now.
I feel after the wave of interest is over, it will be just a few people who will consistently actually play these machines. The issue its self may be blown out of proportion. On the last world it wasn't much of an issue likely due to the saturation of the amount of them and the general stigma they carry- (IE. That you will lose, every time, and that its a scam)
My worry is that you will have a player dump their wealth into one of these machines and see no return. Its devastating. As well, more then likely a mod will have to deal with these people who will then turn and cry to them about their loss. For good reason too, they lost. I would imagine it would be draining to deal with on the regular, or semi regularly.
Have you tired to explain loss of profit to a child? It doesn't work.
I think these "games" have their place. I don't want to see them banned as much as I want to see them reworked to benefit both sides, at least a bit. Maybe a second currency of sorts? The work some people put into the buildings and world are amazing and should not be squandered or without purpose (IE. Banned removed)
I want to see these stay, just for the art of it, but I cannot say that I support keeping them in as is with no protection for the players.
Can anyone think of a middle ground where all parties can benefit? Is it entertainment?
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Post by Knootmare on Nov 4, 2017 22:56:53 GMT
As a former casino owner myself, I can assure casinos exploit a dark side of human psychology. We've had clear exemplos in the past that the "if you don't like casinos, don't play in them" narrative doesn't hold true. We shouldn't be exposing our player base to such toxic and addictive behaviour. Despite whatever the owners might say, a casino isn't driven for entertainment, but profit. I, too, admit that I intended solely to profit when I had my casino last map. With this in consideration, I, as a player, would like to use the reset as an opportunity to ban casinos altogether. Toxicity is being blamed on casinos when the heart of it all is coming from the staff Care to explain? I see toxicity being blamed on Staff every single day, and yet no one can tell me which Staff behaviour is toxic. Having one-upping competitions on chat everyday for who had more diamonds or the better builds is toxic. Belittling your market competitors like you often did pre-reset is toxic. Enforcing the rules isn't. Polling the player base about their opinion on casinos, neither.
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Post by Kydog on Nov 4, 2017 23:04:45 GMT
Personally, I don’t really gamble on this server at all. I’ve maybe spent 7-8DB gambling over a year of playing. I know the machines are set so the house wins, so I generally avoid them. However, I don’t think that it should be restricted to others. For those concerned about others losing DB, it’s a video game. It quite honestly does not matter for the real world in the slightest if you lose 1 diamond, 10DB, or even all of your DB gambling. Better to learn that lesson with virtual currency than real cash.
That being said, there should be some restrictions on casinos. Odds notices, warnings and maybe advertising frequency restrictions would be good since there are younger players on.
TLDR: Allow them with restrictions
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Post by Thomas5200 on Nov 4, 2017 23:23:34 GMT
As a former casino owner myself, I can assure casinos exploit a dark side of human psychology. We've had clear exemplos in the past that the "if you don't like casinos, don't play in them" narrative doesn't hold true. We shouldn't be exposing our player base to such toxic and addictive behaviour. Despite whatever the owners might say, a casino isn't driven for entertainment, but profit. I, too, admit that I intended solely to profit when I had my casino last map. With this in consideration, I, as a player, would like to use the reset as an opportunity to ban casinos altogether. First off, I'd like to point out, that as you said in your post the reset is an opportunity. We have decided to take this opportunity to redefine our casino, and completely change what we are going to do. This season, we are going to focus on making a few high-quality gambling machines, but many events. Secondly, I'd like to point out that we are putting the strong majority of our profits are going towards the improvement of the casino and new events. We have spent around 48-64 diamond blocks on creating the casino, buying claims, etc. Third, I'd like to point out that we may have been toxic before the reset, but not as toxic as you guys were towards us. It even got to a point where we had to create a report because we were feeling to harassed and bullied, which you can see here. -> link Additionally, as I pointed out in my first point, we have taken the reset as an opportunity to change. Fourth, I'd like to point out the timing of this poll. We gave a preview of our new machine, many people loved it, and then this poll is created within a few hours. This timing of this poll seems a little bit too coincidental, wouldn't you say? Finally, I'd like to thank all the people that came out and showed their support for us!! Thanks a lot to you guys!
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Post by johnboner on Nov 4, 2017 23:30:10 GMT
So I'm going to take the time to make a nice long post about this that serves to be informative without being opinionated. After looking at chat talking about gambling, and seeing how some people justify gambling with statements like "fishing is technically gambling in minecraft too", I felt the need to offer a little clarification on where this whole issue is coming from. First off you have to look at the exact definition of gambling: Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize. In the case of Minecraft, you are wagering some form of valuable (ex. diamonds, gold, iron) on a chance of winning some other valuable or desirable material good (ex. ores, player heads, rare items, etc). The consideration here is that you are risking something that took time, money, or effort on the players part to obtain (ergo valuable ores). The chance comes from the fact that the odds to win are typically not in the players favor, so there is no guarantee that your return will be equal to or greater than your wager. Prize is self explanatory as exemplified above. It is worth noting that in most First-World nations around the globe, commercial gambling is a thriving industry that many people pay into and benefit from. However it is also worth noting that in said nations there are typically strict guidelines that regulate the companies that offer gambling services. Beyond that, in nations such as the United States, Canada, and United Kingdom, there are laws that prohibit individuals below a certain age access to gambling. (https://www.worldcasinodirectory.com/gambling_age_chart.htm) Now the other aspect of commercial gambling that makes it deemed unsuitable for younger audiences is that when the player offers up some form of currency as the wager and loses, that wager goes to the house. The house in gambling terms describes the establishment that has made the investment to provide said gambling service, and it is typical for the house to set the odds on their games so that while appearing seemingly balanced, things are slightly in their favor. After all, it is a business and as such a profit needs to be made, lest there be no point in provided the service. This is particularly important regarding children since adults have completely developed brains that are able to measure risk assessment, while children lack this important skill (see healthland.time.com/2012/10/02/why-the-teen-brain-is-drawn-to-risk/ for an article on this). This means that children, who are prone to impulsive behavior, will have difficulty not only weighing their time spent gaining currency against the chance of loss, they will also be more prone to keep playing even if losing. At the end of the day, all this discussion is typically meaningless, since as I am oft to state on the server, Minecraft is only a game made of 1's and 0's and none of this truly affects real life. However, with large servers like these wealth in the game world can very well translate to real life money through the exchange of valuable commodities for things such as ranks, currency in other games, or physical pay-pal like transactions. I know for a fact things like these go on, as evidenced by players exchanging diamond blocks for in-game ranks through people such as Stoner.Per Mojang's own statement "Legally, you are not allowed to make money from our products." as stated here: mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation/ . I count the buying and selling of goods on Minecraft for some form of other tangible currency as "making money". So to wrap it all up, regardless of whether casinos are ethical or not, it is a moot point since according to Mojang no one should be profiting.
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Post by Kydog on Nov 4, 2017 23:44:13 GMT
So I'm going to take the time to make a nice long post about this that serves to be informative without being opinionated. After looking at chat talking about gambling, and seeing how some people justify gambling with statements like "fishing is technically gambling in minecraft too", I felt the need to offer a little clarification on where this whole issue is coming from. First off you have to look at the exact definition of gambling: Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize. In the case of Minecraft, you are wagering some form of valuable (ex. diamonds, gold, iron) on a chance of winning some other valuable or desirable material good (ex. ores, player heads, rare items, etc). The consideration here is that you are risking something that took time, money, or effort on the players part to obtain (ergo valuable ores). The chance comes from the fact that the odds to win are typically not in the players favor, so there is no guarantee that your return will be equal to or greater than your wager. Prize is self explanatory as exemplified above. It is worth noting that in most First-World nations around the globe, commercial gambling is a thriving industry that many people pay into and benefit from. However it is also worth noting that in said nations there are typically strict guidelines that regulate the companies that offer gambling services. Beyond that, in nations such as the United States, Canada, and United Kingdom, there are laws that prohibit individuals below a certain age access to gambling. (https://www.worldcasinodirectory.com/gambling_age_chart.htm) Now the other aspect of commercial gambling that makes it deemed unsuitable for younger audiences is that when the player offers up some form of currency as the wager and loses, that wager goes to the house. The house in gambling terms describes the establishment that has made the investment to provide said gambling service, and it is typical for the house to set the odds on their games so that while appearing seemingly balanced, things are slightly in their favor. After all, it is a business and as such a profit needs to be made, lest there be no point in provided the service. This is particularly important regarding children since adults have completely developed brains that are able to measure risk assessment, while children lack this important skill (see healthland.time.com/2012/10/02/why-the-teen-brain-is-drawn-to-risk/ for an article on this). This means that children, who are prone to impulsive behavior, will have difficulty not only weighing their time spent gaining currency against the chance of loss, they will also be more prone to keep playing even if losing. At the end of the day, all this discussion is typically meaningless, since as I am oft to state on the server, Minecraft is only a game made of 1's and 0's and none of this truly affects real life. However, with large servers like these wealth in the game world can very well translate to real life money through the exchange of valuable commodities for things such as ranks, currency in other games, or physical pay-pal like transactions. I know for a fact things like these go on, as evidenced by players exchanging diamond blocks for in-game ranks through people such as Stoner.Per Mojang's own statement "Legally, you are not allowed to make money from our products." as stated here: mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation/ . I count the buying and selling of goods on Minecraft for some form of other tangible currency as "making money". So to wrap it all up, regardless of whether casinos are ethical or not, it is a moot point since according to Mojang no one should be profiting. Well stated. Building off of it, I think most people are in favor of at least some regulations on casino machines, much like real life. See my post above for what regulations I think should be implemented.
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Post by hudsonnz on Nov 5, 2017 0:25:22 GMT
If it was trading db's for a rank that wouldn't be profiting since you trade in game currency for an in game rank, not for money for yourself
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Post by poogan on Nov 5, 2017 0:28:01 GMT
Everyone keeps saying that gambling is hurting the young on the server but here's my Problem with it. Everywhere you look there's gambling.
Wether it's a scratch off ticket you or maybe your parents buy. Maybe it's that arcade game in the front of a reastrunt or a arcade in general.
If you have ever touched a console or pc game you also see gambling everywhere! Call of duty, forza, NBA, and much more games kids play on every day it's all over!
Loot boxes some sort of micro dlc it doesn't matter its all over.
] Removing casinos is pointless everyday everyone is exposed to these types of things. I don't care if you Trash talk them its your opinion; spend how you want it's your diamonds but removing them won't change how the server runs. When I join the server I take the pride to say I have made people happy before.
Wether it's the events we host or the casino machine someone wins at. Call it what you want but I Enjoy logging on everyday building that casino and making it better and more enjoyable for everyone.
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