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Post by Dr_Positive on Oct 17, 2016 21:58:04 GMT
I like the idea of the players electing the mods, but then there is the problem of it becoming a popularity race on the server to try and get mod. What I think should happen instead of players coming to the moderators and asking to be mods as in the staff applications, the mods should instead discuss among themselves who they think would be a good mod and then the mods come to the player asking them to be a mod.
Also on a side note I would love to see more clarification on the rules. I have been curious for a while now about iron and gold farms whether they are legal or not. If I set up a manual one and I did the killing of the pigment and golems it would technically fit under the no AFK farms rule. I have asked about this before yet there has never been a definite unanimous decision between all the mods and Schaum if they are legal or not.
I love that this thread was made this opens it up a lot more from the previous thread about the toxicity of the server.
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Post by work on Oct 17, 2016 22:10:54 GMT
I like the idea of the players electing the mods, but then there is the problem of it becoming a popularity race on the server to try and get mod. What I think should happen instead of players coming to the moderators and asking to be mods as in the staff applications, the mods should instead discuss among themselves who they think would be a good mod and then the mods come to the player asking them to be a mod. Also on a side note I would love to see more clarification on the rules. I have been curious for a while now about iron and gold farms whether they are legal or not. If I set up a manual one and I did the killing of the pigment and golems it would technically fit under the no AFK farms rule. I have asked about this before yet there has never been a definite unanimous decision between all the mods and Schaum if they are legal or not. I love that this thread was made this opens it up a lot more from the previous thread about the toxicity of the server. They already select the positions for assistant moderators. The problem with this is that some of the moderators have friendships with players and tend to select them over more qualified players. I feel that if a player is truly good at helping the community, and it shows in the way they act, then they should be considered. I've seen staff applications that were made a few hours before the person making them received Assis. Mod whilst more qualified and respectful players had their (more detailed) staff application up for months with multiple likes from players and staff members alike. When it comes down to it, Schaum has the final say in who gets the position, but moderators give him feedback on who they believe deserves the position, which influences him to promote them.
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Post by Dr_Positive on Oct 17, 2016 22:11:16 GMT
Also a clarification on post bumping? And how much players are allowed to "mod" on the forums as in saying what's right and wrong on the forums?
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Post by r3b3lprid3 on Oct 17, 2016 22:15:16 GMT
I like the idea of the players electing the mods, but then there is the problem of it becoming a popularity race on the server to try and get mod. What I think should happen instead of players coming to the moderators and asking to be mods as in the staff applications, the mods should instead discuss among themselves who they think would be a good mod and then the mods come to the player asking them to be a mod. Also on a side note I would love to see more clarification on the rules. I have been curious for a while now about iron and gold farms whether they are legal or not. If I set up a manual one and I did the killing of the pigment and golems it would technically fit under the no AFK farms rule. I have asked about this before yet there has never been a definite unanimous decision between all the mods and Schaum if they are legal or not. I love that this thread was made this opens it up a lot more from the previous thread about the toxicity of the server. this is where FAVORITISM come in to play with the mods cuz they will pick there friends and not true players on the server witch has all ready been post in a post on here favoritism is a thing on here for be coming a mod....
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Post by lisardcrew on Oct 17, 2016 22:19:12 GMT
Aka I've done the #(insertphrasehere) occasionally because... it's funny to me and it was in the conversation. I'm not talking about an actual cause, more like playing around, like #dogsare4life or something like that. I didn't realize that was a frowned upon thing. :/ Also, I agree with players needing to talk out issues before going off on each other in-game or on forums. iMeta I like and agree with your point on the messages for warnings/kicks/mutes/etc. This leaves too much room for a mod to say something a player may take offense to, and we just really don't need more issues right now. It would look more professional to have a standard set of messages to use. I also agree that even though mods are players, they need to be extra careful of what they're saying, esp in public chat. Since mods ALWAYS have the mod tag on, things that are said by mods are usually taken more serious that what is said by players. If a mod does say something (jokingly or not) that a player finds disrespectful, I HOPE that the player would pm the mod and let them know why what was said offended them, and the mod apologizes. Some people seem to think apologizing makes you weak... it doesn't. It's harder to apologize and take responsibility for something than to brush it off. If someone /m or PMs you and explains that they were hurt by something that you said, just apologize and move on.
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Post by SunSeek on Oct 17, 2016 22:25:09 GMT
Oi. The whole breakdown in communication between mods and players is due to a lack of professionalism and inconsistency in applying the rules. Okay, the owner wants to keep the rules simple. That's fine. That's great actually. Too many rules creates too many loopholes, too many loopholes and you might as well hire lawyers ever time you give a ban. What I expect the mod to do; do the duty set out for them fairly. I expect them to understand the rules, the various nuances in which leeway is allowed and when it's not. I expect them to apply their judgement fairly and without personal emotional involvement. I expect them to inform the player what rule was broken and what the consequences are of that action. I expect all the mods to be consistent in applying judgement when rules are broken. I expect mods to take this duty seriously. Honestly being a mod can suck. People will heap on the hate. People will try to play power games. People will try to lie and get awaying with things. And there are people who learn to do better. There are people who just had a bad day and apologies. There are people who will later say thanks for stopping them from being a troll. Being a mod is one of the most thankless jobs. There is often no pay and only the love for the site and community is all that keeps them going. And they are very necessary. Now, one of the reasons I've starting speaking up is local chat has been down right shocking. When an anarchy server is more polite than this one! Things need to change. I wish somebody, anybody had been handing out one-week mutes for all the toxic stuff that I saw. Why, for disrespect and not keeping to the G rated family atmosphere that's Safe Surivial's goal here. Yeah, folks will fuss about abuse of power. Here's how to counter that; Did it break the rules, did the appropriate punishment get handed out? If yes to both, there has been no abuse of power. End of story. As to players voting in mods, just don't. Seriously don't go that route. AS to mods misbehaving, did they break the rules? Did the appropriate punishment get handed out? Ah, this is why I mentioned mods need to have their own set of rules regarding their behaviour as well. Being a mod is a double duty. They are mod first and player second. It can be a challenge to juggle both well. And it's personal opinion but the first set of rules and punishments were just fine. Adding extra warnings will just prolong misbehaviour. I personally don't agree with peramutes, if someone has reached to level to be peramuted, they should have been permabanned instead. There are times when mutes should be handed out fast but without longer lasting consequences. Raging emotions, bandwagoning players, need time to regain their heads. Mutes of those cases, breaking the disprect in local chat, should be enought to slow them down. Okay, I've given enough to this for the moment. I've got my own crowd to keep an eye on. Look, we're all here to have fun. Let's get back to doing just that.
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Post by Aka on Oct 17, 2016 22:29:29 GMT
We'll be taking all of these suggestions into account, btw, so don't hesitate to speak what's on your mind. Just keep it civil! Allowing players to have some say in picking moderators is not a bad idea. Having some influence from what the public has to say might help. Favoritism in picking staff is certainly an issue though, and continues to happen. I'll talk with the staff on making a more detailed document that highlights the rules/do's and don'ts. It'll certainly help in clarifying certain points, and I'm sure we'll all find it useful for all circumstances. lisardcrew, I know you mean no harm when doing the #(insert)! You're a player that respects not only the rules, but all of the other players on the server, so it's fine if you do it. My only concern is for people that will say it to no end, which is where the line is drawn.
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Post by Burr on Oct 17, 2016 22:34:50 GMT
What if the mods come up with canidates from people that apply and players vote? They come up with like 3 canidates (When they find 3 good ones not on a time based schedule) And have a pole?
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Post by Dr_Positive on Oct 17, 2016 22:36:42 GMT
What if the mods come up with canidates from people that apply and players vote? They come up with like 3 canidates (When they find 3 good ones not on a time based schedule) And have a pole? This is pretty much in short what I mentioned earlier. I think mods should come to the well qualified players and ask them to be mod instead of every one striving to be mod.
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Post by SunSeek on Oct 17, 2016 22:45:29 GMT
What if the mods come up with canidates from people that apply and players vote? They come up with like 3 canidates (When they find 3 good ones not on a time based schedule) And have a pole? I know lots of sites manage to do well with selecting mods from the app pool. I am distrustful of the app pool straight off. Here's why: they are willing to apply for a position of power. They want the power. That's an issue that needs to be addressed. Why do they want to be a mod? What skills do they feel they bring to the mod team? Both those questions will highlight different aspects. But it does not shed any light on the qualities I feel makes a good mod. Are they fair minded? How do they handle conflict? Can they control their emotions when provoked? Have they been law abiding? How are they in handling different cultures? How are they in viewing when someone breaks a rule? Do they get emotional upset when handing out consequences? Can they speak with kindness when faced with reproach? Can they guide and teach before things are at the level of requiring the giving of consequences? Being popular and well known does not indicate any of those qualities. Only by mods getting to know other potential candidates, basically mods picking out mods, can these questions be answered.
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Post by Aka on Oct 17, 2016 23:20:04 GMT
Picking a well-suited moderator is probably the most difficult thing. For one thing, this isn't like a formal interview where two people meet face-to-face. Because of this, people can easily lie about what they write vs what they really intend to do. For the majority of staff applications, the hopefuls act incredibly genuine in what they write. However, distinguishing the legitimacy of the statements is where it gets tricky. A few months ago, when we were picking a bit more staff, I decided to go out myself and contact some of the potential candidates through Skype. That's actually how 2 or 3 of our best staff came to be. What I'm getting at by saying this is that yes, getting to know the candidates is certainly the way to finding qualified staff. Finding a flawless candidate is near impossible (as I've only ever seen one), but getting to know a person more is definitely the way to doing so.
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Post by debatesmith on Oct 18, 2016 0:15:33 GMT
Alright, I got like 6 hours of sleep and now im back . A couple things after reading through the last page and a half. 1. Players electing mods: The one thing we have discussed recently is having the players tell us 2-3 candidates who they think would best be suited for assistant mod. We would then train them and have a sort of "standard rating system" in order to make sure they could handle the job correctly. Under no means does being recommended by the player base mean a promotion to full mod. I think that Jase's suggestion about having players response to each others mod applications in order to show support would be a good start. 2. More detailed rules. We have tried to make a changes to the rules/punishment system before, including a couple days ago. These have not been favorably received either between Schaum himself or the playerbase. Currently we are working to create a new system, and will most likely share it with players before implementing it to make sure we get it right this time. 3. Mods being quicker to dispell harassment in chat. iMeta I disagree with disabling &4 chat all together. I think that if we moved towards a stricter "mods only" policy for that font, and used it for a sort of "serious tone" messages, it could work as a way to deal with chat quicker. 4. Better communication between players/staff. This 1st thread has been more productive than I could have imagined and I hope it continues to be used as a place for open discussion. However possibly a weekly post like "State of the server" or "Mod team QA" something like that maybe once a week would help players talk to staff members about issues they have seen that past week? I'm open to suggestions on this one, to see if there are any other ways to do that. Lastly, I just woke up lol so I will probably be adding/editing this once I think of more additions. Thanks for the discussion guys
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Post by aidencrazy1 on Oct 18, 2016 2:13:29 GMT
aiden your aids frist of all hes trying to do sumthing here and ur all was got ur nose in sumthing just step back with ur hacking self.....
debate this is realy cool here dude and i have not seen u joke round an miss round with player like u did lastnite/this moring it was cool for sure and if i was to post what i realy what to say here i would get ban but i know iam known for being the TROUBLEMAKER one the server snice grandpa got demoded and like i tell everone iam not kid but i act like one from what one of the mods says and he can go back to picking hes salty potato for all i care cuz he dont do a thing on here for player but hes buddy he there for other then that this is a cool idea here dude and it was fun lastnite for sure with u mods
im aids srs your reading this and all the toxic things going all then you call me aids i might actually just quit this server the mods do nothing to help and there all i like this guy so im gonna be nice to him. Safesurvival is rip i really dont want to quit because of people like aka and roy but everyone else is yah know what idc anymore im aids and ill always be aids to this server because the mods wont do anything to stop it.
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Post by debatesmith on Oct 18, 2016 4:15:22 GMT
aiden your aids frist of all hes trying to do sumthing here and ur all was got ur nose in sumthing just step back with ur hacking self.....
debate this is realy cool here dude and i have not seen u joke round an miss round with player like u did lastnite/this moring it was cool for sure and if i was to post what i realy what to say here i would get ban but i know iam known for being the TROUBLEMAKER one the server snice grandpa got demoded and like i tell everone iam not kid but i act like one from what one of the mods says and he can go back to picking hes salty potato for all i care cuz he dont do a thing on here for player but hes buddy he there for other then that this is a cool idea here dude and it was fun lastnite for sure with u mods
im aids srs your reading this and all the toxic things going all then you call me aids i might actually just quit this server the mods do nothing to help and there all i like this guy so im gonna be nice to him. Safesurvival is rip i really dont want to quit because of people like aka and roy but everyone else is yah know what idc anymore im aids and ill always be aids to this server because the mods wont do anything to stop it. The entire point of this thread is to discuss solutions on how to make our server and the mod team better. If you feel like we aren't doing something correctly, please post your concerns and/or suggestions so that we can discuss them.
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Post by <3NobleTreason<3 on Oct 18, 2016 14:12:49 GMT
If I was to reiterate what has been said over a hundred times on the other forums by several players... The strictness of rules or number of rules don't necessarily need to be increased but instead directed at destructive intents,for instance. The majority of people don't care about things like controversial topics and competition where conflict can arise. But it's when a small amount of people go out of their way to attack players personally instead of their ideas, in an attempt to offend, is when incites a problem. There is no need to regulate chat's content as long as what is being said is constructive or kind. More rules restricting language will only lead to more tension. Punish the abusers and ignore everything else. fan fictions, Presidential debates, Arguments over trade are not only constructive at times, but fun or funny. It's when people start getting personal, destructive and immature that people get hurt. And those are the people who should be punished. Fanifictions that don't use vulgar or explicit language should not be punished as they require the reader to already know what is happening, but direct description would obviously be considered age inappropriate. Lets start reinforcing some maturity so that we can later expect it. Now it's not always on the mods half that this problem occurs. it can be incited by the player base. For instance when spawn was flooded with boats, a lot of people had fun sitting in boats and inching around spawn. But some people complained and reported it as an abuse of mod power. People who do this are such kill joys. Did it lag for those of us who have low end pc's? Yeah, I was getting about 12fps with optifine, but I didn't want to ruin the fun for everyone and ultimately had to avoid spawn for the 20 minutes. I love these shenanigans, they are the fun parts about socializing. If we keep letting the small and few regulate the majority the server becomes less fun... lets encourage a mature audience whether you are 8 years old or 58 years old a mature and humble atmosphere is what we need. and Instead of complaining about the inciters of the conversation lets punish those that abuse, or wrongfully participate in them. When you enforce every rule we have, the server becomes less fun to socialize. My personality is decimated because I want the ability to tell people how sexy they and their works of art are. But under the current mentality that we have to be pc,pg, and content neutral makes me want to ditch this server for a more constructive one.
On an entirely separate point, there is a massive amount of favoritism and chance based advantages which lead to many players to extend themselves beyond what they would naturally be able to do, or newer players are restricted by what they would otherwise be able to do normally. This can be anything from Schaum or mods treating players specially to being able to get elytras or special items. When it comes to chance or circumstance based resource limitations, Any player should be able to join in and acquire the basic vanilla necessities as easily as if they where in a brand new vanilla server. It is unfair that we charge players 32 diamond blocks, or the equivalent of 16 hours of mining! When you can get to then end,raid it, find and ely in less then six! Often new players find out these odds and immediately quit the server, because statistically it would be easier to find a new server with true vanilla access then it would be to grind out the absurd amount of resources to get access to a single aspect of vanilla mine-craft. This can be paralleled to Ghast Tears, Dragons Breath, Sponges, Dragon eggs, warp space land, and other limited quantity or reduced chance resources on the server... And I get it that the idea of exclusiveness is fun. Heck I builst a 2.7k dia structure in the sky, I'm not hurting on this server. But I'm tired of seeing smart and fun, loving people leave because they know they are better off somewhere else... Now exclusively chance based items like custom items are a tricky subject. Unbreakable tools being a endgame luxury is a great idea. But giving out one time only items like the cocaine sugar, or god of meat, or special event items can be rather disheartening if you missed the opportunity. And I understand that Unique items present a cool theme, but they have to be more loosely accessible if you are to have a player base that is treated fairly. Giving away an item that was presented at an opportunity to an exclusive group is favoritism. And once again it's easier to find a server that gives these types of items away more loosely, then it is to actually earn them. Thus creating tension and resentment. Don't even get me started on that stupid temporary donation shop thing. Donations should be cumulative and should add things every month. Not take away what we already have. Add a new feature every month it isn't hard. Yes I have ran servers, no it isn't hard, although coming up with ideas can become stale after a few years. People shouldn't have to fight for spaces closer to warps... The solution is as easy as stop being lazy and add 30-40 more warps. Statistically it will take less time to make them then it will be to walk the thousands of blocks away from the current ones to get to people's builds. OR make a way for players to get their own custom warps, no that isn't hard either.
In this sense the server is not only verbally and judicially toxic, but fundamentally as well. We need to encourage creativity, fairness and humility through the use of logistics and statistics. Stop letting old players run over new ones, and it will lessen tensions and aggression.
TLDR: - Kill the Kill joys - Stop trying to enforce rules to the line. - Punish those who are being destructive ONLY. - PC, PG, And content based rules, lessened. - Socializing should be encouraged, even at the expense of the few. (sail boat silliness at spawn for instance) - Stop trying to please everyone, Please the average players or the majority.
- We are vanilla lets start acting like it. - Give easier access to vanilla items, kill exclusivity. Elytras,Dragons breath, sponges ect. - Use statistical aquisition averages to set prices. - Warp creation should be fluid, people are selling warp space for absurd amount of dias. - Stop giving away economic power like ^. - Donation rewards should be permanent and should add things every month, not held for monthly ransom.
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