|
Post by work on Oct 17, 2016 16:41:02 GMT
Instead of making this you could reply to other reports or discussions and talk to them you didnt have to make a brand new discussion. No offense, but that's been going nowhere so far. This needed to be done to attempt to resolve all issues with staff and players.
|
|
|
Post by jase_llan on Oct 17, 2016 16:46:39 GMT
I'd suggest whittling the staff down to a skeleton crew, and then allowing everyone who wants to apply for staff to do so including the staff that were removed.
Also, allow people to respond to staff applications to gauge the public's stance on the player - of course, it would only be to see responses, whereas the facts are what should really determine who gets picked.
|
|
|
Post by r3b3lprid3 on Oct 17, 2016 17:01:56 GMT
aiden your aids frist of all hes trying to do sumthing here and ur all was got ur nose in sumthing just step back with ur hacking self.....
debate this is realy cool here dude and i have not seen u joke round an miss round with player like u did lastnite/this moring it was cool for sure and if i was to post what i realy what to say here i would get ban but i know iam known for being the TROUBLEMAKER one the server snice grandpa got demoded and like i tell everone iam not kid but i act like one from what one of the mods says and he can go back to picking hes salty potato for all i care cuz he dont do a thing on here for player but hes buddy he there for other then that this is a cool idea here dude and it was fun lastnite for sure with u mods
|
|
|
Post by Herr_Stoner on Oct 17, 2016 17:54:48 GMT
1) Back in July, I posted a suggestion to revise, refine, and redefine some of the rules. Back in July. What I see going on now is nothing more than a result of the lack of foresight to clarify rules. Everything that the moderators are doing now is reactionary, when something more progressive should have been put into place long ago. Rather than continue to complain about what is done so far, how about this:
Rules of Safe Survival
1. No Profanity, Spam, or Divisive/Controversial Topics in Public Viewing.
Please keep in mind that young children play on the server. Keep the chat appropriate for them. This also means that abbreviations are not allowed. Additionally, do not have inappropriate skins or usernames for the same reason. Profanity may be used in private chat if both players are fine with it AND it does not violate Rule 2. Please do not spam in chat. Advertising for player-owned shops is well and all, but not when it constantly floods the chat. Keep the advertisements down to one message per 5 minutes. For Epics, please do not constantly spam colored text or messages using the /me command. Also, keep the use of &4 (red) to a minimum, as moderators use the text when attempting to maintain order in the public chat. Finally, this is an English-speaking server, so use English in public chat.
2. Respect Other Players.
Do not flame or troll other players. It does nothing except bring negativity into the chat, and other players don't want to see it. If you really do not like a particular player, use the /ignore command, or air out your dirty laundry in private chat like a decent human being.
Certain players have different limits than others. If someone is crossing that limit in private messages, first tell them to stop. If it persists, /ignore that player and bring it to a moderator's attention. If you think that it might cross the line, do not say it. Also, keep in mind that young children play on the server, so act accordingly.
3. No Advertising.
Do not advertise other servers, nor post links in chat.
4. No AFK or Lag Machines.
To prevent server lag, no fully automatic farms are allowed. This includes but is not limited to: AFK fishing farms, automatic wheat/potato/carrot farms, automatic melon/pumpkin/sugar cane farms, automatic cactus farms, farms where withers or game bugs (ex. duplicating TNT) are used to break blocks, guardian farms, iron golem farms, and zombie pigmen/gold farms. Crop farms must be interacted with (use a button, lever, pressure plate, tripwire hook, etc. for redstone-based farms, or manually harvest), with the exception of iron/gold farms (not allowed, period). The only exception to this is an automatic egg collector.
Do not have any automatic killing machines. You must deal the killing blow. Softeners are allowed. With this in mind, please keep the entity cap at ~30 per chunk to prevent lag.
5. Hacked Clients and X-Ray Packs are not allowed.
Hacking and X-Ray Packs ruin the fun of finding materials and spawners on your own. When caught, all ores and precious materials (gold, iron, emeralds, diamonds), even if found normally, will be taken from you and any and all spawners will be destroyed.
The only add-ons allowed are Optifine and Shaders.
6. No Griefing.
Do not destroy other players' works, even if they are unclaimed. Do not raid their chests. When in doubt, ask a moderator!
7. Do not ask staff for /tp or /tpa.
There is no /tp or /tpa on Safe Survival. Ownership did not want /tp or /tpa, so it is not something that is a part of Safe Survival. It's that simple.
8. Do not build within 100 blocks of another build.
This rule is not enforced near spawn or warp areas, or when players give permission to do so (ex. in a player(s)-owned town).
This is only a start, and I probably will revisit this post to add clarification as I see fit.
2) There should be a clear list of punishments that is dependent on what rule is being broken. PROPOSAL COMING SOON.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 18:00:54 GMT
Staff did overhaul the rules, this was turned down by Schaum because he wanted them to be simple :/ Edit: I believe the main staff member who was involved in doing so was Ikith . But I remember seeing a very good, well writen set of rules that covered everything, abit like you have done. It would have improved staff QOL quite abit imo. It was quite a while ago and as a buttmod at the time, I didnt involve myself to much with it.
|
|
|
Post by jase_llan on Oct 17, 2016 18:07:27 GMT
1) Back in July, I posted a suggestion to revise, refine, and redefine some of the rules. Back in July. What I see going on now is nothing more than a result of the lack of foresight to clarify rules. Everything that the moderators are doing now is reactionary, when something more progressive should have been put into place long ago. Rather than continue to complain about what is done so far, how about this: Rules of Safe Survival 1. No Profanity, Spam, or Divisive/Controversial Topics in Public Viewing.
Please keep in mind that young children play on the server. Keep the chat appropriate for them. This also means that abbreviations are not allowed. Additionally, do not have inappropriate skins or usernames for the same reason. Profanity may be used in private chat if both players are fine with it AND it does not violate Rule 2. Please do not spam in chat. Advertising for player-owned shops is well and all, but not when it constantly floods the chat. Keep the advertisements down to one message per 5 minutes. For Epics, please do not constantly spam colored text or messages using the /me command. Also, keep the use of &4 (red) to a minimum, as moderators use the text when attempting to maintain order in the public chat. Finally, this is an English-speaking server, so use English in public chat. 2. Respect Other Players.Do not flame or troll other players. It does nothing except bring negativity into the chat, and other players don't want to see it. If you really do not like a particular player, use the /ignore command, or air out your dirty laundry in private chat like a decent human being. Certain players have different limits than others. If someone is crossing that limit in private messages, first tell them to stop. If it persists, /ignore that player and bring it to a moderator's attention. If you think that it might cross the line, do not say it. Also, keep in mind that young children play on the server, so act accordingly. 3. No Advertising.Do not advertise other servers, nor post links in chat. 4. No AFK or Lag Machines.To prevent server lag, no fully automatic farms are allowed. This includes but is not limited to: AFK fishing farms, automatic wheat/potato/carrot farms, automatic melon/pumpkin/sugar cane farms, automatic cactus farms, farms where withers or game bugs (ex. duplicating TNT) are used to break blocks, guardian farms, iron golem farms, and zombie pigmen/gold farms. Crop farms must be interacted with (use a button, lever, pressure plate, tripwire hook, etc. for redstone-based farms, or manually harvest), with the exception of iron/gold farms (not allowed, period). The only exception to this is an automatic egg collector. Do not have any automatic killing machines. You must deal the killing blow. Softeners are allowed. With this in mind, please keep the entity cap at ~30 per chunk to prevent lag. 5. Hacked Clients and X-Ray Packs are not allowed.Hacking and X-Ray Packs ruin the fun of finding materials and spawners on your own. When caught, all ores and precious materials (gold, iron, emeralds, diamonds), even if found normally, will be taken from you and any and all spawners will be destroyed. The only add-ons allowed are Optifine and Shaders. 6. No Griefing.
Do not destroy other players' works, even if they are unclaimed. Do not raid their chests. When in doubt, ask a moderator! 7. Do not ask staff for /tp or /tpa.There is no /tp or /tpa on Safe Survival. Ownership did not want /tp or /tpa, so it is not something that is a part of Safe Survival. It's that simple. 8. Do not build within 100 blocks of another build.This rule is not enforced near spawn or warp areas, or when players give permission to do so (ex. in a player(s)-owned town). This is only a start, and I probably will revisit this post to add clarification as I see fit. 2) There should be a clear list of punishments that is dependent on what rule is being broken. PROPOSAL COMING SOON. The first points you make here are very true, I'd say - foresight has been lacking.
|
|
|
Post by Arkline on Oct 17, 2016 18:13:41 GMT
I'm on mobile so excuse me for the format.
@herr_stoner
I also wanted the rules to be revised and clarified, back when the "problem of the month" happened to be claims when a certain situation occurred within a town. I brought up what grey areas needed to be covered, and Ikith also gave his inputs, but Schaum didn't want to include those in the rules, as what 3nts said. It doesn't HAVE to be plastered right on the rules post, but perhaps as a secondary post as Rules: Explained, just so people know it's there and so that there's less confusion about what to do about certain things.
On the whole Mods vs. Players thing, an earlier effort was made by having the current build contest where Mods and Players work together. But I have seen that it's not very effective due to conflict of interests, and especially when there's prizes at stake. An example of a more relaxed and easygoing collaborative effort is the abomination beautiful mansion that a couple of Mods and Players worked on together on top of the Snow Spleef Arena. It was definitely the most fun I've had in a while.
|
|
|
Post by lisardcrew on Oct 17, 2016 18:15:42 GMT
Herr_Stoner I like the add-ons that you put into the rules list. That is what I was thinking about when I was talking about common sense... sometimes what is communicated is just not clear enough. I'd be ALL FOR an extended rules list like this. @schaumg550 Even though simple is good, too simple is just as bad as too complicated. We need things more spelled out for players.
|
|
|
Post by lisardcrew on Oct 17, 2016 18:34:29 GMT
debatesmith First of all 27 hrs no sleep? Dude, I hope you knocked out! Second, I just wanted to clarify... about mining (this'll be long, sorry). I mine ALL the time. I've never (to my knowledge) been accused of x-ray and have never used it. I do know there is NO rule against mining for Dia, and never has been. What I was referring to was mining in an erratic way; without a pattern. Like sunseek said, we all have unwritten rules for every relationship we have, professional or personal. For example, in my life: I was raised as an Air Force brat. There is no state or federal law governing how much respect you owe your parents. Some parents raise their kids with no respect, some in the middle, some are abusive. My unwritten rule growing up was that I never was allowed to show a bad attitude to my parents or I'd get punished. That goes for school, work, friendships, etc. There are things that you know not to do that aren't necessarily discussed or written down. Safe Survival has these as well; Sunseek said she (sorry if you're a he) believed one of those was to not mine for dia. I disagree on that and say I believe one of the unwritten rules isn't to mine erratically; your tunnels need to make some kind of sense or they are suspicious. That being said, if you mine as players typically do, in lines, strip mining, etc, there shouldn't ever be an issue. IF you mine ERRATICALLY there can be an issue. If someone is banned for x-ray and claims they didn't do it, I'll still believe they did it, simply because I've been playing on this server around a year (almost I think... I started last Oct or Nov) and I've mined, sometimes getting 1-2 stacks of diamonds and never been accused of using X-ray. I can personally see that mods don't judge by quantity, but how tunnels look. If a player mines in a way that makes no logical sense, the only way they can prove they were not x-raying would be to video the entire mining time. The recent issue where mods were showing proof of suspicious tunnels helped me understand better how sure mods can be about x-raying. The evidence left behind is pretty damning (not meaning that as a cuss word . I in no way meant this to be a tangent, but I felt the need to be clearer. TL;DR - Don't X-ray, just don't. And if you mine in a weird pattern (for whatever reason), cover yourself by videoing yourself mining.
2. I LOVE that ya'll are considering a way to get the community involved in the process of selecting new mods. I totally understand that mods (and players) have had to quit due to IRL issues. I just think that one of the contributing issues to the unrest could be involving the many changes the staff group has been through. I'm sure it affected the mods too, having to "reacclimate" to new people. It's nothing that can really be helped... I was just offering a possible cause. I agree that if a player who was once a (good) mod had to quit, then could mod again it makes sense to grab them up again.
3. I like the running a new system by some of the dedicated players to get their input thing. I'm glad to know this is one of the top issues that'll be resolved.
4. I did not know about Ember's building... lol. Yes! If a sign was placed, or somehow attention drawn to it, that would be great!
|
|
|
Post by natalie on Oct 17, 2016 19:24:21 GMT
On the flip side, Mods can't say stop teasingly... as mods. Maybe the actual stop now warning would use the red color? I know mods are players, have friends and tease amongst each other, but speaking as a player I sometimes feel confused... is this a REAL "STOP NOW" or is it a teasing "lol, stop". We're not seeing body language, only text on a screen. I feel that needs to be clearer. This. Really, I'm just going to add onto this, but this is something that bothers me whenever it happens. There are times at which I have seen an "omg stOP" instead of "Stop." I'm not saying every moderator does this, because most don't, but please don't do this. I get it when no actual harm is being done and chat is just fun and games and we're all playing with each other, but when it's the opposite and chat is just being plain cancerous, that's a no-no. The point is to get players to stop when they're doing something wrong, not join in with them.. Thank you for pointing this out Lisard
|
|
|
Post by Aka on Oct 17, 2016 20:08:18 GMT
Here's what I've gotten out of this thread:
- Players advocate for more detailed rules rather than simplicity
- Communication between players and staff is not at the level it should be
This is more of a question than anything, but what are some of the issues with the "updated" rules (see link: safemc.proboards.com/thread/3496/safe-survival-offical-rules-updated)? Although there were some positive comments about the post, there were also a number of people who acted against it on purpose, as if there was a statement that was trying to be made from doing so. If anything, the added post was simply a more detailed version of rules 1 and 2. What are some of the problems that you all may have with it? It's still a post subject to change, and it'd be nice to see what exactly is making everyone upset. Also, Herr_Stoner , I do agree most of it is reactionary, but at least something is happening. It would've been nice to see most of these changes implemented ahead of time, and that's certainly something to think about when creating more rules/regulations in the future. Simplicity seems to also be having issues on its own. I think Schaum originally didn't want such detailed rules because people may not read through it, but seeing the suggestions, the details are clearly needed. Hopefully, the "Official Rules Thread" can be edited to be similar, if not exactly as the one posted.
I also agree that communication is lacking when it comes to moderators and players. What I've noticed is that rather than confronting the person personally, people will tend to blow off whatever steam they have in public chat, causing commotion and miscommunication between everyone. There may have been a legitimate reason for doing so, but it unfortunately does not come off that way to the rest. Silent protests are also something that tend to just aggravate everyone. Basically, what I'm saying is that if you have any sort of problem with a particular staff member, or even another player, directly talk to them about it. If that doesn't go out well and the person acts violently against it, find a middleman. At this point, I think some miscommunication is happening because there is no direct confrontation. Once that is resolved, I believe many things will be resolved.
|
|
|
Post by Fab on Oct 17, 2016 20:41:47 GMT
aiden your aids frist of all hes trying to do sumthing here and ur all was got ur nose in sumthing just step back with ur hacking self.....
debate this is realy cool here dude and i have not seen u joke round an miss round with player like u did lastnite/this moring it was cool for sure and if i was to post what i realy what to say here i would get ban but i know iam known for being the TROUBLEMAKER one the server snice grandpa got demoded and like i tell everone iam not kid but i act like one from what one of the mods says and he can go back to picking hes salty potato for all i care cuz he dont do a thing on here for player but hes buddy he there for other then that this is a cool idea here dude and it was fun lastnite for sure with u mods
Hi. Let's be nice to others please. 1. If you have something to say, please do so in a peaceful manner. Don't hold back on what you have to say, it kind of defeats the whole purpose of this thread 2. We're glad you had fun yesterday! We hope other players enjoyed the events as much as you did!
Also, thank you to the players who posted their suggestions/thoughts! We really appreciate it :3
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 20:51:23 GMT
I think the rules have been misunderstood by staff members and players alike. The main thing thats being misunderstood is 'Any and all #cause/memes. Public chat is not social media.'
Ive seen some staff give out warnings or at least threaten to when a single player says something like #hi or whatever. I think whats being missed is the fact its under the heading 'Excessive spamming of chat, including but not limited to:'.
Players are allowed to do #whatever aslong as its sensible and not spammed. On another note if the player is asked to stop saying a particular # like the damanter one they should stop, this falls under rule #2.
The rest of the rules are pretty sensible, we've all known about most of them for a while.
Id like the 'Order of bans for these offenses:' cleaned up abit? Has the warning system changed to 2 warnings then a 4 day ban now or is this something completly different?
|
|
|
Post by iMeta on Oct 17, 2016 21:06:24 GMT
First of all: Thanks for posting this, a player posting this wouldn’t have gotten anywhere. 1) Mod Rules of Conduct: Have a general rule book for all mods specifically stating how to handle certain situations with players. Staff should be acting more professional as well, lately they haven’t been. 2) Respect of Mods and Players: Any level of disrespect should be treated with the same punishment, even if it is considered “minor”. 2. Respecting all players and staff. I truly feel like this is where we are having the most trouble, and where the most toxicity comes from. Because you're right, everyone becomes offended by different things, and can accept a differing level of abuse. We tried to address this with the updated rules post a couple days ago, but that has been unfavorably received by players and a few mods alike. This is the number one issue that we discuss among ourselves and we are still working on a solution/better system than the warning system. We will try to be more open about where we are headed with this, and when we have a solution that we think will work, I suggest that we propose it to some of our most dedicated players to gauge their reactions.
That is a great statement. ^ 3) If &4 is such a problem for mods (like we’ve been seeing) it should just be disabled. No “use it in moderation” position on it. 4) Adding an extra title of a “Head Moderator” seems unnecessary and counterintuitive with Vex as Admin. 5) We need better communication overall between the mods, players and Schaum. The lack of communication that seems to be happening is allowing the server to fall apart. The most important point here is the professionalism issue. Some mods need more work than others in this problem. A few mods respond to people with warnings and bans that don’t specify the reason, confusing the player and other mods when looking into a player’s /history. A few example of this can be found below. JohnsonFTW was muted by iEmber: 'Can you not' [Expired]
JohnsonFTW was kicked by iEmber: 'Final warning: Why do you want to be banned'
-- [2 days, 2 hours, 11 minutes ago] --
JohnsonFTW was warned by iEmber: 'Why do you want to be banned' [Active]
Expires in 4 days, 21 hours, 48 minutes.
-- [2 days, 2 hours, 12 minutes ago] --
JohnsonFTW was warned by iEmber: 'Language bruh' [Active]
In this quote, iEmber had warned JohnsonFTW for saying a few vulgar things. The warnings looked a bit unprofessional and honestly, a bit sloppy. It needs to be a set statement, and not just a statement made by that mod in the moment. Here is the most apparent example of unprofessionalism and disrespect. Here Cathal groups me with certain people that some find distasteful and paints me as the ringleader. I also feel like Cathal saying everyone else is toxic, when most of the time, he is instigating it. Example Found Here: safemc.proboards.com/thread/4015/report-embthal-said-banned-purpose[17:26:14] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <| Moderator | *Cathal> Alex and his crew
[17:26:27] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <| Moderator | *Cathal> Can't wait till they're banned
[17:26:36] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <| Moderator | *Cathal> They're the new grooveys
[17:26:39] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <| Moderator | *Cathal> but more annoying
[17:26:51] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <| Moderator | *Cathal> alex and coCathal has defended himself about being disrespectful by saying it’s all in “jest”, which is clearly an overused excuse. Below a player is letting Cathal know he didn’t take the disrespect as a jest and they actually felt bullied by it. I was joking in chat and Cathal98 called me insignificant and it was disrespectful towards me and I didn't feel wanted. This sort of behavior from mods is unprofessional and unappealing. This is by far the biggest problem with the server and it should be corrected. Thanks for reading. ~Alex (Edited by Phoxsin & others because Alex can't write.)
|
|
|
Post by Aka on Oct 17, 2016 21:45:43 GMT
I think the rules have been misunderstood by staff members and players alike. The main thing thats being misunderstood is 'Any and all #cause/memes. Public chat is not social media.' Ive seen some staff give out warnings or at least threaten to when a single player says something like #hi or whatever. I think whats being missed is the fact its under the heading 'Excessive spamming of chat, including but not limited to:'. Players are allowed to do #whatever aslong as its sensible and not spammed. On another note if the player is asked to stop saying a particular # like the damanter one they should stop, this falls under rule #2. The rest of the rules are pretty sensible, we've all known about most of them for a while. Id like the 'Order of bans for these offenses:' cleaned up abit? Has the warning system changed to 2 warnings then a 4 day ban now or is this something completly different? Thanks for the feedback, Ents! I could've sworn that I edited that portion a few days ago, but I guess I'll have to do it again. The hashtag thing is only an issue when people begin to use it for controversial topics in order to purposely get people heated on it. Well, those instances and the Damanter situation (Once again, we all respect Damanter and the work he has done, but the hashtags involving him were things he didn't want being continued). It would be nice though if players would stop doing #(random word or phrase) just because they want to "defy" the rules. I mean, it's fine and you won't get warned/banned, but if it's simply to spite staff, that's just being a bit mean. The ban system is in the process of being sorted out... I'll be sure to edit this post when it's decided among staff.
|
|