aamon
Steve
Please beware of resonance cascades...
Posts: 9
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Post by aamon on Oct 1, 2017 21:10:55 GMT
Ok. Concerning the actual reset, will there be a countdown towards the grand reopening of the server, or will we just have to refresh constantly?
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Post by Herr_Stoner on Oct 1, 2017 21:20:24 GMT
500GB of data is nothing! You say there's no feasible way to keep backups of a server that big yet how do you think enterprises with MORE than that amount of data keep backups?! While no Safe Survival is not an "enterprise" there are still donations incoming that can be saved up for a NAS, a HUGE NAS that can hold MULTIPLE TB of data and backups! Saying that backing up the server is not feasible is a plain and simple cop out and excuse basically saying "we didn't keep backups because we were lazy and didn't want to invest the time/money to invest in a good backup solution and backup contingency plan". Seriously though Safe is the number 1 semi vanilla server, you would think with the amount of donation money rolling in you would have saved some of it and invested in a NAS or something similar to backup your servers... Not to be rude, I just find it astonishing that a backup of some sort wasn't made, and that you are trying to pull the "it's not feasible" card when other enterprise production servers with a HUGE amount of data, more than safe survival has can backup, store, and recover data with no issues. I can scroll through my emails and double check an exact amount, but I like my approximation of $1,500 donated (based on my own donation for Epic + custom rank and the 15 others I donated for Epic + donation of MVP ($40) for the majority of staff + maybe a dozen of miscellaneous ranks). I would like to think that the [obscene amount of money] that I spent on the server be enough to cover that sort of expense, don't ya think? I'll edit this if I find something else regarding this, but based solely on memory, I had near 500 votes and 380,000 claim blocks. I'd be more than willing to hunt through my chat logs and find a more exact number for both. BUT from what I'm gathering, that's just going to be ignored? So a longer-tenured player gets the same as someone who is brand new to the server? No thank you. Information I found while digging through logs: From my chat logs dating on 09/24/2017: [13:06:57] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] 100000 blocks from play + 283156 bonus = 383156 total. From my chat logs dating on 09/26/2017: [21:39:09] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] -----Vote Stats: Herr_Stoner----- [21:39:09] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Total Votes: 479 [21:39:09] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Current Streak: 14 [21:39:09] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Longest Streak: 318
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Post by Ikith on Oct 1, 2017 21:33:59 GMT
500GB of data is nothing! You say there's no feasible way to keep backups of a server that big yet how do you think enterprises with MORE than that amount of data keep backups?! While no Safe Survival is not an "enterprise" there are still donations incoming that can be saved up for a NAS, a HUGE NAS that can hold MULTIPLE TB of data and backups! Saying that backing up the server is not feasible is a plain and simple cop out and excuse basically saying "we didn't keep backups because we were lazy and didn't want to invest the time/money to invest in a good backup solution and backup contingency plan". Seriously though Safe is the number 1 semi vanilla server, you would think with the amount of donation money rolling in you would have saved some of it and invested in a NAS or something similar to backup your servers... Not to be rude, I just find it astonishing that a backup of some sort wasn't made, and that you are trying to pull the "it's not feasible" card when other enterprise production servers with a HUGE amount of data, more than safe survival has can backup, store, and recover data with no issues. I can scroll through my emails and double check an exact amount, but I like my approximation of $1,500 donated (based on my own donation for Epic + custom rank and the 15 others I donated for Epic + donation of MVP ($40) for the majority of staff + maybe a dozen of miscellaneous ranks). I think that'd be enough to cover that sort of expense, don't ya think? I'll edit this if I find something else regarding this, but based solely on memory, I had near 500 votes and 380,000 claim blocks. I'd be more than willing to hunt through my chat logs and find a more exact number for both. BUT from what I'm gathering, that's just going to be ignored? So a longer-tenured player gets the same as someone who is brand new to the server? No thank you. Considering this is the NAS setup I'm looking at for my house (HOME USE!!!!): I'd say what you donated will get a much better NAS than that. Seriously this not feasible crap is a huge cop out.
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crowconut
Steve
♫ If you like piña caw-ladas! ♫
Posts: 5
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Post by crowconut on Oct 1, 2017 21:45:36 GMT
This sucks, but at least we can get a nether hub up and it's kinda inspiring to start over better. Hopefully you guys do invest in a good backup, though, so this doesn't happen again...We're losing a lot of players
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Post by QueenEpona on Oct 1, 2017 22:20:02 GMT
Disappointed. Just, disappointed.
This could have EASILY been prevented.
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Post by Dragontooth73 on Oct 1, 2017 22:21:31 GMT
Donations will be reclaimable a) I didn't buy my ranks; they werd donated to me from players, will that be ok. I have chat logs, b) Will reclaimed donations be the old format, or new. The donations can only be claimed by the sign it was purchased under. The rewards claimed will be the new donation rewards, not the old ones.
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Post by Knootmare on Oct 1, 2017 22:32:31 GMT
Chiming in to announce we will be taking this opportunity to revise our rulebook with the community. Please refer to this thread to suggest changes in general rules, and this thread to suggest changes in redstone rules.
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Post by phaic on Oct 2, 2017 0:06:36 GMT
I wish that we could have kept at least our ender chests or something. but I guess you couldn't recover any of that either. excited to see what this reset brings though!
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Post by zot on Oct 2, 2017 0:16:27 GMT
I want to speculate a little bit here because I'm not privy to this information. I've been very impressed by how the hardware could support the very large SS world and high number of users. Since I think it would be very expensive to accomplish this on one of the Minecraft hosting services along with the time taken to fix the hardware, I'm going to assume that someone was hosting this hardware privately. We've seen both the good and bad aspects of this.
I can also understand Schaum's claim that it's not possible to backup a 500GB world on a regular basis. Minecraft is written in Java. That's the reason it runs so poorly. In addition, not much thought was given to data integrity. It is nearly impossible to do a live form of backup using the vanilla code. The server must be down while the backup occurs and even on a disk-to-disk copy, you are looking at many minutes or longer to back up the data. A remote or USB drive would be substantially worse.
Having said that, there are modern filesystem technologies that should make this possible. Although I am only familiar with ZFS (on FreeBSD), I'm sure by now linux has something similar. Basically, you can checkpoint the filesystem at any point in time and return to that point at a later time if you need to recover. Obviously, on a busy server you could quickly use a lot of disk space, but you don't have to keep every checkpoint around forever. And these filesystem are much better at dealing with a single (or even double) disk failure without corruption.
The downside, of course, is that a machine like this would probably be more expensive which might not be practical for the people who host SS.
Personally, I had a lot of hours sunk into building stuff on SS, including large Guardian and Wither skull grinders, a villager/spellbook farm, and a large underground complex. It's very difficult for me to start over on a server that's gone through four resets and may go through more. Any way things go, things will be different.
One thing I thought I might mention: I understand why the donors are getting their items and ranks back. They have supported the server in the past. What bothers me is the idea of all these people showing up with claim blocks during the initial land rush. I don't want to see the same old people owning everything near the warps. Maybe you could delay the claim restorations until some point a few days after the server comes back up to give everyone an equal chance on claims?
And thanks for your efforts.
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Post by racecartacocat on Oct 2, 2017 0:18:49 GMT
This is disappointing. Seriously-after you get thousands upon thousands of dollars from donations, a good majority being profit, you haven't thought to spend a few hundred on a separate hard drive to back up your server? I understand your equipment may have failed, but for a server this size, at least one external backup should be a necessity. There's not much of a point to backing up the server if it's on the same hard drive; it might save it if a single data file is corrupted, but an equipment failure prevents this from helping. Personally, I think that the recent data corruptions should have been warning signs....
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Post by Muchorchar on Oct 2, 2017 0:24:10 GMT
Is this for real? Só i lost my town my hard working builds my rank my donations my arena my Map Art simply because of a Full Reset? Welp i was planning on getting back on December but then i see this... If i get back to the server than ill restart my town in a new way that none has ever been made before. ..IF. ..
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Post by Pixel_exe on Oct 2, 2017 0:29:53 GMT
I ain't going anywhere... I have nowhere else to get to. I hope I didn't do something idiotic like put all my stuff away or something. The biggest loss for me will be my heads collection and the fact that I was only days away from getting Master.
*Starts screaming in rage and frustration*
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Post by Ikith on Oct 2, 2017 1:10:34 GMT
I want to speculate a little bit here because I'm not privy to this information. I've been very impressed by how the hardware could support the very large SS world and high number of users. Since I think it would be very expensive to accomplish this on one of the Minecraft hosting services along with the time taken to fix the hardware, I'm going to assume that someone was hosting this hardware privately. We've seen both the good and bad aspects of this. I can also understand Schaum's claim that it's not possible to backup a 500GB world on a regular basis. Minecraft is written in Java. That's the reason it runs so poorly. In addition, not much thought was given to data integrity. It is nearly impossible to do a live form of backup using the vanilla code. The server must be down while the backup occurs and even on a disk-to-disk copy, you are looking at many minutes or longer to back up the data. A remote or USB drive would be substantially worse. Having said that, there are modern filesystem technologies that should make this possible. Although I am only familiar with ZFS (on FreeBSD), I'm sure by now linux has something similar. Basically, you can checkpoint the filesystem at any point in time and return to that point at a later time if you need to recover. Obviously, on a busy server you could quickly use a lot of disk space, but you don't have to keep every checkpoint around forever. And these filesystem are much better at dealing with a single (or even double) disk failure without corruption. The downside, of course, is that a machine like this would probably be more expensive which might not be practical for the people who host SS. Personally, I had a lot of hours sunk into building stuff on SS, including large Guardian and Wither skull grinders, a villager/spellbook farm, and a large underground complex. It's very difficult for me to start over on a server that's gone through four resets and may go through more. Any way things go, things will be different. One thing I thought I might mention: I understand why the donors are getting their items and ranks back. They have supported the server in the past. What bothers me is the idea of all these people showing up with claim blocks during the initial land rush. I don't want to see the same old people owning everything near the warps. Maybe you could delay the claim restorations until some point a few days after the server comes back up to give everyone an equal chance on claims? And thanks for your efforts. There is no excuse to the lack of backups as I said in my first post, enterprises that store a ton more data than 500GB manage to back up their servers and data just fine, safe while not an enterprise can back up their data as well with no issue see my quote here: I can scroll through my emails and double check an exact amount, but I like my approximation of $1,500 donated (based on my own donation for Epic + custom rank and the 15 others I donated for Epic + donation of MVP ($40) for the majority of staff + maybe a dozen of miscellaneous ranks). I think that'd be enough to cover that sort of expense, don't ya think? I'll edit this if I find something else regarding this, but based solely on memory, I had near 500 votes and 380,000 claim blocks. I'd be more than willing to hunt through my chat logs and find a more exact number for both. BUT from what I'm gathering, that's just going to be ignored? So a longer-tenured player gets the same as someone who is brand new to the server? No thank you. Considering this is the NAS setup I'm looking at for my house (HOME USE!!!!): I'd say what you donated will get a much better NAS than that. Seriously this not feasible crap is a huge cop out. For $468 dollars I bought a NAS and 2x2tb (I actually opted to get 2x2tb drives running at 7200rpm over 5400rpm so it was a bit more expensive but the point still stands) hard drives which can be RAIDed either in RAID0 (making the drives 4tb total storage) or in RAID1 (Meaning I get 2TB of storage out of it but I get redundancy, meaning if 1 drive fails the other drive still has the data) this setup in raid0 could back the server up 3 times over including all other files (permissions etc etc). Another thing that was brought up by a friend on my discord that still follows the ins and outs of safe brought up the fact that ReliableSIte (the dedicated server host for Safe Survival) offers RAID6 (Meaning the drives are in a RAID so they give more space AND they have a mirrored set so you get redundancy) at no additional charge, see here: Further more, even if Minecraft is written in java, all of the data is stored separately outside of the minecraft JARs in data files, all of these data files could have been backed up at the very least! This includes, the map, votes, claimblocks, claims, regions, coreprotect (stored in SQL but you can make a script that backs up SQL in fact you can probably find one on google and adjust it to your liking) and so on! All of this is stored separate from the minecraft JARs. Edit: Another point to be made is this ALL (either NAS or another backup solution) SHOULD HAVE been paid for via donator money which brings another question to mind WHERE THE HELL ARE THE DONATIONS GOING IF THEY AREN'T BEING USED TO DO STUFF LIKE THIS?! These are the questions you donators and players should be asking. Again there is NO excuse to not have backups, the map may be large but that's what backup systems like NAS's are for, this is what backup systems like tape drives are for, this is why you store backups in multiple places. You can't go making money on a server via donations or otherwise and not treat this like its making money, you have to take some of the money you make and put it to bettering the server in ways like this, to make sure your players are happy, to make sure your donators are happy etc. I'm surprised there are not more people completely outraged by this.
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Post by Thomas5200 on Oct 2, 2017 2:15:26 GMT
I think the bottom line here is that the server setup was just sloppy. It most definitely wasn't "impossible" to create a backup for the server, and I don't understand why it is being said so.
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Post by wickedclown24hr on Oct 2, 2017 2:40:45 GMT
SERVER IS UP BUT CANT JOIN YET HOPE THEY GET IT OPEN SOON
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